Cheap Talk

Cheap Talk is an every-week-or-so international relations podcast with Jeff Kaplow and Marcus Holmes, professors of government at William & Mary.

Fist Bump, American Flag, Fire Emoji

High-level US government deliberations on the Signal app; the true beliefs of our national security leaders; why using Signal for national security discussions is a bad idea; classified information and Signal’s security; the use of emoji in formal work settings; and Marcus is more of a WhatsApp person

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

Please subscribe to Cheap Talk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast player of choice to be notified when new episodes are posted.

Please send us your questions or comments!

Further Reading:
Jeffrey Goldberg and Shane Harris. 2025. “Here Are the Attack Plans That Trump’s Advisers Shared on Signal.” The Atlantic.

Dan Black. 2025. “Signals of Trouble: Multiple Russia-Aligned Threat Actors Actively Targeting Signal Messenger.” Google Threat Intelligence.

See all Cheap Talk episodes